We're in outer space…why are there Japanese outfits? Not being racist or hating but it seems to be a trend in games lately. Why not design something original pertaining to the world like the original Phantasy Star games had.

if they change the things with power levelling using different classes, they will see way less people playing, serisously, is ridiculous how this game is made to farm farm farm, it's a pain.

want to try new classes ? go lv30. hey ?

now do this quest who takes hours. hey ?

them kill 5 times each boss, cause i'm sure you have lots of free time. heyyyyyyy ?

what you want to gain time now because you consider a bother to be lv1 with no photon blast except one ? haha die guy, we'll nerf you.

oh man, I don't understand these guys…

And here I thought the quests rewards were meant to work like that as an anti-grind measure for experienced players. Kinda like how some MMOs let you make a max or near-max character once you have one high enough.

Their argument is a bit moot. If someone has a high enough character to farm repeatable quests, then they should already know how to play the game regardless of what class they play.

I think really need to look at how a typical person plays MMOs. People generally will rush to the higher levels because it gives you more interesting stuff, more money, and parties.

There needs to be an incentive for lower level quests or if you play with lower level players you could receive some kind of bonus that you can't get at higher levels.

cool, I would like to know how is TGS this time for PSO2 other than just playing it on 3x versions.

@-Z-: Thing is, when you play MMOs, you expect it to keep you occupied no matter how often you play it.

I mean, shit, look at Guild Wars, that game is over 7 years old and people still play it even though the levels are capped at 20 and all the campaigns can be completed in less than 3 days. That's because there's ALWAYS something to do and, even if you completely exhaust the non-PVP content, PVP pretty much never gets boring.

Compare that to PSO2 where you run out of things to do after a month of playtime and have to wait until the next update.

What you say about being on the brink of not playing it is true. The issue here is that they try to encourage you to switch classes and try different things but they limit what you're allowed to do at low levels to the point that once you've spent so much time doing them already, you still feel like you've run out of stuff to do. The new classes only seem to highlight that problem rather than help alleviate it.

I have a lvl 150 mag that put my T atk high enough to be able to learn lvl 9 techs by lvl 8, but if I switch back to Force, I can learn the level 10s. So you can imagine everything dies incredibly fast. but the drops are horrible so I'm not getting anything new or interesting or fun. I'm just running around killing stuff til I can get back to a place where I'm getting stuff that's worth having. To make matters worse, the class just doesn't feel that different. Wands are much better for melee, but I already had no problem whacking stuff around to refill my PP and get back to casting so what I'm really doing now is working to complete the other half of my skill tree (for sub classes) while playing only slightly different with techs I could use as a force anyway while stuck doing the missions I already did more times than I care to admit.

if that last part was directed at me though, you misunderstood. the game doesn't limit you on how many classes you can "optimize". It forces you to spend way too much time doing the same repeated tasks to make those classes available and then once available, they cut you off from over half the game making you crawl your way back to where you already were and seemingly slower than you did the last time due to the lack of available orders. it's almost like they're punishing you for playing more than one class.

If Sega allows us to be able to change class and subclass without needing to play as multiple characters, then they should put more variety and incentive into these COs. I understand that repeating things over and over is boring, but IMO the dreaded dead zone between levels 25 and 34 is a major reason why everyone stockpiles and retakes Clessida's and Franka's COs.

When I found out that the new classes were coming out, in addition to the subclassing, I decided that the best way to maximize my enjoyment of this game would be to spend time playing all the classes. I did things like challenge myself to clear as many COs with overlapping requirements as possible, so I wouldn't have to deal with wasted experience rewards. I hope that this would help me with the massive power gap that will arise later on, with everyone subclassing and such.

That said, I think the best way to get around the scaling-back of EXP rewards is to level all 3 new classes at the same pace, instead of powerfeeding one class while I play as a different one. It will be slower, but I need a way of keeping things fresh.

they want you to regrind those 150hs it took you to reach max lvl on your first class because they are too incompetent to add REAL content.

why don't they expand the area maps at least on hard? make em five times larger and add a whole bunch of new enemies in addition to the ones already on the area so the player feels he's experiencing something new, why don't they add more rares, I'm not talking about 1 rare per item class, im talking 50 rares per item class or something. instead they release some stupid costumes and a fat npc

the new classes and weapons are cool, but then they screw it up with all the restrictions for changing classes.

in the end the players who reached max lvl are just gonna wait for the new lvl cap and when they reach it after 10 hours or something they are gonna stop playing till the next one. what's the point of all this "new content" if it can't be of any use to me?

Did any of you saying it's a pain to level to 40 play the first PSO? 200 levels remember? (or 100 if you just played v1)

THAT was a pain to lvl. Playing casually it could take around 1000 (THOUSAND) hours to reach lvl 200. And there was really no big reason to reach 200 because you'd never find the rare lvl 180 requirement frames and most stats were already capped at lvl ~120.

There is no way to say the first PSO was better than this. I liked it a lot, but this is better in almost every aspect. We just need to wait for Ultimate mode. If that difficulty level is still not hard enough, then you can lose hope.

Oh and I don't think competitive PvP would work well here. A fast paced game like this with 300+ (maybe 400~500) latency? No, thanks. That would just make me smash my controller to the wall so many times.

-Z-

Or you could read the Japanese reviews and see that they're making same complaints and more.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012075/index_use…
Are they whining Westerners too? Do they need to grow up as well?

PSO2 isn't "finished" because it's an online game that relies heavily on progression. It will never be "finished". Your argument is invalid.

It's also not "2-3 months old". That's a very poor justification. It's been in development for many years, and has undergone many testing phases. The game you know has already been reworked several times due to user complaints, because the original game design was even worse.

This shows that they are terrible at game design and don't see any problems until people complain. Does this still make you feel confident that SEGA knows what they're doing and is capable of fixing their game? The choices I'm seeing with the latest update convince me otherwise.

One of the fundamental problems with PSO2's gameplay is that virtually every gameplay system in the game relies on layers upon layers of random number generated systems.

For example, what does a PSE Burst consist of? In order to achieve it, you have to rely on random chance of enemy spawns, which relies on random chance of ending up in a good multi-party, which usually involves a random chance for a good attack event, and relies on random chance for good Emergency Codes to spawn enemies, and the random chance they'll release PSE, with a random chance that it's for the type of PSE type that you need, as well as the random chance of doing enough damage to kill enemies quickly, which relies on the random chance of having decent gear drop, which relies on the random chance of grinding succeeding, as well as the random chance of affixing, and obtaining fodder for those relies on random chance of drops or meseta.

How much of the above is player control? Players quickly get to a point where they're already playing to the best of their ability, and the rest relies heavily on random chance. Where's the satisfaction and gameplay depth in that?

The game needs to do away with the random number generators and replace them with systems where the player has control, room to experiment, and skills to master. As it is now, several systems conflict each other, frustrating the player and discouraging experimentation with alternate playstyles. Progression also causes more issues than it solves, often preventing people from playing together and making the game much more repetitive.

These issues are fundamental problems that should have been ironed out during the design process, if not the testing phases. They can throw as much content on top as they want, it'll only drag things out. The game won't truly improve unless they go back to the drawing board and rework all the systems.

Even if everyone goes into denial, and whether or not you dismiss everyone as being immature whiners, the fact is the game has so many issues that it's turning away potential customers right now. They launched the game in an incomplete state, and people keep arguing that we should all be faithful and wait for them to finish their game. Not everyone has the patience to wait around while SEGA experiments with bad game design choices and ideas.

Being supportive doesn't mean agreeing with everything and letting them continue to make mistakes. By the time SEGA gets their act together, most people will be bored to bits and have a negative impression of the game, and they'll be sharing that negative impression with their friends. This is not good business practice.

@-Z-: I stopped reading your comment after the 2nd paragraph.

You put everyone who complains into the same box. On top of that, you seem to think that PSO2's 150 hours worth of content is satistying, and anyone who has higher expectations for a franchise as big as Phantasy Star, coming from a studio as big and experienced as Sega, is a complete idiot that needs to shut up.

Also, Guild Wars had more content on the day it was released than PSO2 has NOW. So did many other F2P MMOs.

Sega is feeding us breadcrumbs (because they know Phantasy Star fans are gonna keep playing regardless) and you defend them for it.

better start saving some meseta for the miko costume :3

100% Concur with the post by -Z- in this case. The negative criticisms have really gotten a bit overboard IMO.

my bad. コンテンツ means contents, 不足 = not sufficient, 不満 = not satisfying, 少ない = little.

lol reading some of those jpn comments and oh good, im not the only one dissatisfied/confused by the hastily thrown together story. anyways, the jpn players don't seem to have very many good things to say about pso2. glad i'm not alone there either.

ITT: western players upset over the change when they should be grateful at the fact they aren't banned.

If there's anything I've learned in the past years of gaming, it's that forum-goers are always the ones who bitch about the state of the game, while the real players are still playing the game. Seems a few people here need to take that into consideration.

And before someone tries, I'm still playing the game, and still loving every bit.

Can't help but agree with everything that TaigaUC said.

"Why not Make weapon trials with Daggers like hang time? Trials for Knuckles like weaving through attacks X times without getting hit? Stuff that actually makes you learn to use the weapon and rewards you for it? fighting the same boss you’ve been fighting since April 9 times over just to satisfy a quota doesn’t have anything to do with “weapons training” and makes things drag on needlessly"

go away with your sensible ideas, that "just takes more programming/manpower away from developing actual content derrrprrrprrderr"

"stop complaining its f2p omg nilok u can just play whenever u want jeeze"

I agree sometimes you stay leveling in the same area for too long, but you know… the game only has 6 areas right now… (7 if you consider the city)

The fact that they are randomly generated (supposedly) makes it "shine" in the long term.

But actually I'm enjoying to level up my Fighter. These new weapons require more skill to play correctly than Hu's (twin daggers at least). The Force class is leveled up to 30 too and I never played with it, only used CO's while playing as a Hu. The Ra is the only one still at lvl 1.

Your idea of "swinging X times" would be even worse IMO. "Face an Oodan and swing out of his kick 7x in a row" really? I think it's more exciting to kill Vol's (it takes ~10 mins to solo kill a Vol rushing directly to him).

Maybe they could make special areas (training room) for these "weapon training" CO's where you're SOLO and face only the enemies required.

Also, remember as they raise the level cap they will keep introducing new areas (this time they gave us the opportunity to play the latest areas on normal mode) and emergency quests. Unfortunately the "daily orders" are a complete fail before the mid 20's. (8 exp for each Agnis wtf?)

One thing that annoys me is that you can only carry 20 CO's. That makes me go back and forth to choose the ones I'll keep based on the area i'll farm next. And it F-I-L-L-S my storage with stacks of half dozen CO items that weren't enough to complete an order I dropped. BTW, most CO's items you can buy from the player's shop (but I think you know that, despite your Vindictus comment).

Unfortunately I never played Vindictus because nexon blocks anything outside NA, but I tried C9, which I think(more like guess) is pretty similar, and I couldn't bear much more than 14 lvls. The gameplay is the most important thing in a game to me.

I'm aware the game has some dozens of dungeons (not randomly generated), but it had an overall unpolished style I can't exactly explain that doesn't feel right.

In the end you're right to say PSO2's progression is kinda lost right now. Feels more like a sandbox or something. Go to a designated area and farm it until you can access the next, which will give more exp.

But wasn't PSO kinda like that too? It had only 4 areas. So you were going to farm the first until you were ready for the next and so on. Through the 4 difficulty levels. (sorry if I always compare it with PSO, but I never played any portable or PSU version)

Altough PSO was like that, I'm not saying this one needs to have the same flaws. I think it needs a better progression feeling too. (as long as they don't borrow other MMO's boring as f*ck models *cough* Blizzard's *cough*)

Maybe they will actually do that, but remember they are already with a pretty tight schedule until the beggining of 2013. If they don't find time (that means not prioritize these player's concerns) to fix this now, they will probably do it after the Vita and Android releases, since they seem to be listening to the player's feedback so far.

If you're faking a oodan into attacking and using the shift key evade to dodge, you're still learning the invincibility frames and timing even if it is technically cheating. The point i was trying to make was that the weapon training orders are less about learning to use the weapons and instead are "complete mission X under simple conditions"(rappy mission in under 15 with even basic weapon is easy unless you goof around killing things for too long. easy to solo in 7 mins though and still get an S) with the alternative being "kill boss X Y number of times" These don't teach you to use the weapon and instead just make you run the same quest so many times until you've completed them all. I was just throwing out some basic ideas but you could easily do other things. complete the quest only using the weapon's special evasive maneuver (as opposed to step dash) or complete the entire mission without PAs. These actually force you to start to actually learn the finer points of the weapon. Sure some of the can be "complete only using said weapon" but it should be areas that they know will be difficult to complete using that weapon or on bosses where the weapon isn't going to be as effective.

Another good one for daggers is to use the built in parry X times. In case you didn't know there are certain frames in the dagger's attack that actually negate enemy attack on hit. Things like this make you learn to use the weapon and see everything it offers and also allows the developers to create newer more complicated bosses that force you to learn these things if you expect to do well

The new weapons are indeed fun and they're also way too easy to beat bosses with. Daggers are especially overpowered on large bosses. Lock in on a body parts and if you've spent more than 5 minutes with it, you just sink your teeth in and don't let go.

You're right you can buy a lot of the quest items in player shops, which is nice, but the real point here was you dont have to have the orders to get these items either. the alternative is to stockpile these mission items while the order is active which just means farming those items for exp. there are too many of these quests to begin with and they're artificially trying to lengthen game time by making you run around in these areas fighting the same group of enemies.

These procedurally generated maps are ok, but tbh once you see that they basically just take maybe 10-15 pieces and arrange them in different ways, the "omg never the same map" thing isn't much more interesting than pregenerated maps; especially when you're just boxed into the same areas with the same enemies coming at you in small numbers. very quickly the walls all become one color 3with a few objects that can be used in various ways.

Also, I appreciate what you're saying about PSO; but, with respect, that game is over 10 years old now and it was one of the game's glaring flaws even back then. Comparing this to a game from nearly 3 gaming generations past, you may as well compare Madden 2013 to Football on the Atari 2600(reaching a bit, I know, but you get my point).

Even still, as dated as PSO is and as hard as it is to look at this game and PSO and do a real apples to apples comparison when you have the technology of today to account for, PSO may have lacked in content, but I never felt back then like I was grinding for levels. Limited as the game was, the only things in place to stop your progression were minimum levels for difficulty. that's it. Hard was minimum level 20 for all of hard mode, 40 for all of Very Hard and 80 of Ultimate. Monsters also became faster and more difficult to stagger, so having good weapons with good abilities and a real understanding of your weapons was fairly important.

in PSO2 trash mobs are all trash mobs with the only difference between difficulties being stats. Aside from making a mistake, there's really not much reason for someone to have any difficulty in any area or with any boss when transitioning from normal to hard. We've yet to see very hard mode, but it's useless to speculate on that for now. Ultimately, you could go wherever you wanted on the difficulty you chose. If you wanted to deal with hard mode delsabers and their ilk at lvl 20, you could. May not be the best plan if you were soloing or inexperienced, but it wasn't like you were stuck doing forest for the next 10 levels. Furthermore, it was much easier to level up in that game early on. If I transferred a mag over to a new character on v1, you could get to lvl 100 inside of a week. Two if you had a life.

Bottom line is in PSO, the only content you were restricted from at level 1 was actual gear and techs. In this game, even though there's more content than there was in PSO and the gameplay is generations better, the game restricts your every move, making you earn your way to new content through repetition rather than actual achievements.

Regardless, PSO is otherwise an inferior game in most every way(no offense to the diehards) and it's hard to look back and say "I still wanna play that". This has really been my only complaint this time around and it wasn't even a big issue with my first character. Additional characters though – something only paying customers can have draw a big red circle around this point and it seems that SEGA didn't give much thought to what is essentially replay value hoping that the class variety would be enough to stuff any complaints about tedious progression. Maybe this actually works on some people, but I've been playing video games for 28 years and so a lot of these games end up being so similar there's very little learning curve outside of the class' fine points which aren't even important at this stage in the game.

I guess I just don't know how they plan on drawing this game out for 5+ years and keeping a playerbase for that long when their only trick is to make you spend 10-15 hours in one area before you can move onto the next without seeing anything new. whole games take less time to complete, and they actually want to slow people DOWN.

I aggree with almost everything you say. I think I'm just more patient and believe they'll work things out soon, because I still didn't find a game that can hold you for too much time playing since launch. No game at all. Maybe if I was younger, but not now.

"I guess I just don’t know how they plan on drawing this game out for 5+ years and keeping a playerbase for that long when their only trick is to make you spend 10-15 hours in one area before you can move onto the next without seeing anything new."

I'm still not sure what's exactly these "new" things you wanna see. More challenge? Or is it different ways to progress through said area in the course of these 10-15 hours you stay on it?

In fact I think their updates are pretty good compared to other games. It's usually more of the same and that's it. C9, for example, updated September 12th too. The update was a handful of maps, drops and enemies for the new maps (and that was a major update). Here they at least added something that actually changes the way you play the game. Next month they will do it again with sub-classes and MPA boss (which they introduced the idea with the Big V emergency?).

I also noticed they added some new "sectors" to the Lilipa areas and those little turrets. While they are not necessary at all (unless you're lvl 1), the idea of machinegunning everything around is pretty fun :3

For a moment I thought they had enhanced some enemies AI, removing the possibility to interrupt certain attacks' (kaltagoth's laser and spargun's shot), but it was me using daggers and those lack any kind of hit stun with basic attacks xD

Now one thing that will actually make me lose a lot of the hope I still have in the game is if they make Very Hard just another stat increase. Hell, that's Blizzard's concept of "difficulty". Even with PSO they made it better.

Since I still have hope, I believe they will change some stuff for the VH and hopefully will make Ultimate really challenging.

@Dnd these stuff are being shown on the interface already, but they will be implemented in a future update (soon).